What about the other Gifts?

Original Question: “Where does the movement model make room for pastor, teacher, prophet etc.?”

Answer: Many questions like this arise when leaders of individual churches and/or networks of churches start exploring Disciple Making Movements strategies. The assumption is that DMMs are only focused on the apostolic and evangelistic giftings, while Paul clearly identifies additional giftings.

Here is the actual biblical text which is being alluded to in this question:

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. (Ephesians 4:11-15).

To me, this immediate context makes it is clear that Paul is thinking about the Church Universal, rather than a single congregation in a particular location because of his use of the phrase “the body of Christ” and “attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” For the majority of his ministry, Paul has not labored in the areas where others of the Apostles lived and worked. He spent some time in Jerusalem during his early days as a believer when Barnabas vouched for him. Later he joins them in the discussion about acceptance of the Gentiles into the Kingdom, but by and large Paul’s intentional strategy was to go to unreached and unengaged regions where the Gospel had not yet been heard.

The word “apostle” is an English form of the Greek word “apostolos” which was used for anyone sent out as an emissary. In the Great Commission Jesus directs the 11 to “Go make disciples” in the whole world. Paul is later added to their number and we actually know more details about his going than we do the 11, because of Luke’s presence on Paul’s apostolic team going on mission with Jesus. Apostolic workers are those who intentionally go to new places, where the Gospel has not been heard prior to their arrival.

The word “prophet” clearly carries great significance in Paul’s first letter to the church in Corinth. Seeking that gift is proposed by Paul as a corrective for some of the problems which arose in that specific church. Prophecy gives divine insight and confirmation. There can be predictive elements as is seen when an upcoming famine is revealed ahead of time by Agabus. (Acts 11:28). This foreknowledge empowers believers to prepare ahead of time to assist those who will be most negatively anticipated (much like happened through Joseph in Egypt). Prophecy is not restricted to a single located congregation, though.

“Evangelist” is one of these functions which many recognize fits well into the Disciple Making Movement rubric. Someone who has this divine gifting is able to cross many cultural barriers without requiring specialized training. But many believers are not this way. They need help in recognizing the differences which make so much of an impact that shifts in tactics are required. Those who intentionally bring good news into dark places are seeking to be evangelistic.

“Pastor-teachers” seems to me to be the best translation of the next category in Ephesians 4, because of the way Paul’s Greek is written here in this text. There is a phrase which is duplicated multiple times earlier, but is noticeably absent between pastor and teacher. Paul writes of Jesus, “he gave some to be…” four times, not five. Jesus gave some to be apostles, gave some to be prophets, gave some to be evangelists, gave some to be pastors and teachers.

In many traditional church networks the pastoral/teaching role is almost exclusively present. Because it is so significant, the efforts to counter-balance this extreme are heard as denigrating this function. I remember David Watson encouraging a large group he was training in California, “In every group gathered to be shaped by God’s Word, look for two types of leaders in the household–apostolic/evangelist types who live to see the word go to other villages where it has not gone yet and also those with the pastoral/teacher hearts that are necessary to nurture the ongoing spiritual life of an emerging local church.

With these thoughts in mind, explore what God does in Antioch of Syria. Read Acts 13:1ff and see that you have both emphases. Early training in DMM always focuses on vision casting for going, but if there is to be fruit, much fruit and fruit that lasts (John 15), then it requires a both/and, rather than an either/or.

Q&A: Do You Recommend “Pitching” the Text?

Original Questions:

What do you think about the general idea of using these kinds of passages (like the Sermon on the Mount) with Discovery? I know that narratives tend to work better than teaching blocks, but I have a preference for reading through blocks of text, in order to model what we expect people to be doing on their own, and learning to listen to God through all of the Bible.

Also, in the light of this list, how do you recommend “pitching” the text? Reading the titles (and those on your bookmarks), I realize that our general approach is just to introduce the text as “the next one to read”. We don’t ordinarily put a title on it. Probably because we want to encourage people to hear God speak through the text, without being prescriptive! But looking over the list, I wonder whether it is better, particularly in a church setting, to “orientate” the work that we’re doing. What do you think about this?

My Reply:

I did my Masters thesis on Matthew’s Gospel, so it holds a special place in my heart and mind. In church settings it is appropriate to go deeper, I believe. Jesus certainly gives his disciples “insider” information when they asked. If we want to transition from a consumer mindset, though, we must maintain some strong inductive rhythms. 


“Pitching” the text gives a group a heads up that we are hoping to mine it for certain insights. The whole series I sent you is certainly “pitched” as it explores the first Gospel looking for Jesus teaching and modeling of Kingdom definitions and callings for leadership. 

One of the unique characteristics of Matthew’s Gospel (compared the Mark, Luke and John) are the five large teaching blocks. Interestingly, in the first Gospel Jesus is said to have a threefold ministry (proclamation of the kingdom, teaching and healing). When he commissioned the 12 and sent them out (chapter 10), he empowers them to do two of the three. The one which is withheld for Jesus is teaching. Some commentators believe Matthew did this to parallel Jesus with Moses and the Pentateuch. I think that usually gets overworked. But Matthew contains that interesting directive:

““But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Everyone is discipled to the same Rabbi because we all have the same Teacher. His name is Jesus. Actually, the Great Commission is the only place in the first Gospel where the disciples are to teach and then, we teach people to obey all of Jesus’ commandments. 


Clearly other biblical books present the idea and importance of many of God’s people functioning as teachers. This is part of the spiritually empowered ministry in Ephesians 4. But Matthew emphasizes there is One Supreme Teacher. The rest of us are focused on getting others to listen to and obey Jesus. When you call the church to the Sermon on the Mount, it is appropriate to consider, weigh and explore who we are listening to and what his desired outcomes are as we explore. 


While we call it the “Sermon on the Mount,” Matthew actually tags it as teaching his disciples (Matthew 5:1-2). Much is made of the crowd, because we call it a sermon, but the first Gospel makes more of this being a setting where he is teaching his disciples and the crowds overhear. What does following Jesus look like? What should it look like? Jesus casts a kingdom vision in these three chapters which are very challenging and counter cultural. 


As long as the “pitch” is true to the context, I am okay with it, personally. I do much less of it with lost people. 

Q&A: What Kind of Growth Happens in Movements?

Original Question: “How do you differentiate between numerical growth as a result of multiplication and spiritual growth in terms of rooting people in Christ using this approach to discipleship?”

Deep and wide–that is the simple answer to the question in the title. Everyone? No, but more than what I have seen in traditional legacy churches, to be very honest.

For far too long much about the Christian experience in the Global North has become a “spectator sport.” People show up to watch professionals “do ministry” on a stage. We may find that our knowledge of concepts about Christianity grows in this fashion, but our actual experience of being apprentices to Jesus is negligible.

Since I was not able to get further clarification from the lady who raised this question, I must take some educated guesses in hopes of providing an appropriate answer. It is quite possible I will miss the mark, but hopefully my efforts to respond will prove beneficial for someone who reads.

Numerical growth through multiplication and maturing spiritually are not necessarily adversarial or competitive. But our failure to focus intentional energy on either is a grave oversight, in my humble opinion. I believe many Christians stagnate in their spiritual maturity because they never become involved in reaching the lost. Following Jesus closely will always involve us in connecting with people who need a Savior and King. He said of himself that he was sent to “Seek and save that which is lost.”

If you want to learn something well, try to teach it to others. Discipling disciple makers will greatly shape your walk with Jesus. Becoming intentional in praying for laborers and seeking out Persons of Peace can guard your spiritual walk from becoming self-absorbed. Please do not make something an either/or that Jesus has said is a both/and. Many disciples who come to faith in Movements mature at a faster rate than those reached in traditional approaches. The idea that I only have to be one lesson ahead of others that I am leading keeps me making double applications of the Word (to myself and to those I am influencing). This actually accelerates my growth.

Question # 7: Who?

“Who do you know who needs this message that you will tell this week?” is a powerful seed for multiplication. This is only true when Discovery Groups will name names and then share with those named.

Tragically, many self-identified Christians do not like answering this question. Even fewer follow through with sharing with the people who come to mind. If you are not getting new generations of Discovery Groups, you can be sure Question # 7 has been dropped or altered.

If your Christian group experiments with using a Discovery process pay special attention to their responses to this question. If they do not know any lost people who need to hear God’s Word, then they need to get out more (in person and/or online. They need to become active listeners. And they need to become better at intercession—pleading God’s promises for the people where they live, learn, work and play.

Who are the people who walk regularly in your neighborhood? Could you ask them to join in their walks? Get to know them. Talk about casual topics. Explore a meaningful topic. If they are comfortable with that shift, try a spiritual theme. If they say they are a believer, “already have a home church,” or signal they follow Jesus, then tell them you want to find lost people in the neighborhood. Ask if they will help. Invite them to join you in prayer walking while you exercise.

If they are not willing to talk about spiritual matters, then you need to begin praying that the Holy Spirit will produce and opening. Get their names. Mobilize others from your home church, small group and/or disciple making team to start praying for them. It is possible they are believers who have been wounded by other people at their last church, or they may not know Jesus at all. Keep walking. Keep developing a relationship and revisit the importance of spiritual matters.

Whenever someone is open to spiritual topics ask if he is interested in reading the Bible to see what God is really like. If she is willing to do that, then ask if she has family or friends who might be willing to join in, also. Start a new Discovery Group with this person and his family/friends. They will be prompted to share the passages they explore with others, too.

Question 4: God?

Of all the questions, this is the most impactful (in my studied opinion)! You will not praise him or plead his promises (intercede) if you do not know him and trust him. You will not dare to see yourself in the story if you don’t rely on him to change you. You will not hear his call to obedience if you disbelieve. You will not share if you have no hope. Your only motivation for ministering to others will be your anticipation that they will reciprocate.

Faith in God changes things. Faith in God changes you. Faith in God changes me.

Some call the usual Scripture set “Creation to Christ.” I call it “Discovering God.” That is our great need.

It is not that God is lost and needs to be found. No, we are lost and finding him gives our lives true meaning.

Asking, “What do we learn about God?” opens a Discovery Group up to focusing on the one character who appears in every story contained in the the Bible. While the next question helps us find ourselves, too, we quickly learn he is the main character. The Bible is ultimately about him.

Our lives have true meaning when lived in relationship with our Creator. Seeing how Jesus is the perfect reflection of the Father opens our hearts to the realization that he shows us God’s heart most clearly.

Many do not have first-hand experience hearing what the Bible actually reveals about God. Getting their “fingerprints on the Bible” exposes them to God’s heart.

As a young man, who came from thirteen generations of Buddhists (that they could count), read the passages from Genesis trust began to grow. He referred to God as “the One above all.” He declared, “This answers the questions I have been asking since I was a young boy!”

Question # 4 is the heart and soul of a Discovery Bible Study. I encourage you to ask and answer that question every time you read from the Bible!

Q&A: Multiple Questions

Actual Questions:

1. Compared to topical study in small group discussions where we can discuss from various passage from bible, if we stick to one passage don’t we miss other key principles from scripture about same topic? 

2. When we ask questions of what can we obey from the passage, should it be group obedience or as per what person discovers? If it is based on what person discovers then wont we miss on key principles that they miss?

3. What shall we do if some members in the group are not obedient to their commitments made in last week?

My Responses:

  1. Please remember that the Discovery questions and approach were developed for lost families and/or friends who are open to exploring the Bible together to especially discover what God is like. One of their fears of church people is that we have them at an unfair disadvantage because we are familiar with the Bible and they are not. Staying with one text is for their benefit. But this can be good for ordinary church members, too. If there are multiple passages related to a biblical theme, then work through them one at a time as a small group. Then spend a session (every 6-8 weeks) tracing out the insights that flow from the collection of passages. In this scenario, every participant will have been part of discovering from all of the passages together. The insights which are traced out will be more widely shared because of the earlier group times. Most of our thematic studies are dominated by a few who expect others to absorb and accept because we have declared it so, rather than guiding a process where people discover for themselves whether or not it is from the Lord. Trust the Holy Spirit.
  2. In highly individualistic cultures their “I will…” (obedience) statements will most likely be based on what each individual hears from the passage. Yes, there is some risk attached with this, but the same is true of deductive teaching or other forms of inductive study. More significant than the statement of what they are going to do, is what they actually do in obedience to what they hear from God. In collective cultures it may be more valuable to coach the group toward a shared, “We will….” Statement of obedience. If they hear from God an action to take and they act on it, their hearts will become increasingly open to hearing from Him. Drawing attention to good quality “I will…” Statements (after everyone as shared their own) often results in those with weaker statements beginning to make better commitments and actually working on obeying them. What happens in the group gathering is significant, but what happens outside is often more transformational. Trust the Holy Spirit to work before, during and after the Discovery gathering!
  3. Modelling making good “I will…” Statements, doing what we commit to do in them and then transparently sharing what happens when we attempt to obey is the best path forward with the resistant. Do not shame them. Love them. Ask privately if there is a way you can come alongside them to see a different outcome next week. Most importantly intercede for them throughout the intervening week. Trust the Holy Spirit to work in their life!

Movements???

“What is the definition of ‘Movements’ in DMM?” is a question I was recently asked.

While most of the topics I have discussed in this blog are very biblical, this one is much more anthropological or sociological. Hopefully I am not scaring you off with those “ology” words this early in an article. But I want to be perfectly transparent here. There is no biblical definition of Movements and the word does not appear there.

Yes, I do believe Paul and his missionary band launched a series of Movements which spread throughout the coastal region of what is now modern-day Turkey. The spread was so expansive that even those who counted themselves as enemies said, “And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that gods made by human hands are no gods at all.” Acts‬ ‭19:26‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This testimony came as a result of his two years of “discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.” Acts‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The threshold of calling something a Movement needs to be numerically large enough, generationally deep enough and transpiring quickly enough that it is obviously greater than any group can produce or control.

That was my answer when asked to define Movements in DMM. Let me break it down and unpack it a little.

Numerically large enough–in some movements in Africa that ceiling has been set at 100 churches. While no group is going to be unhappy or critical with 65, 85 or 95 churches within a formerly Unreached People Group (UPG), this threshold has been intentionally set high enough to require God’s purpose and power. Another significant missionary force sets their threshold at 1,000 new baptized believers among a people group. Either way, the total number of new followers of Jesus is significant.

Generationally deep enough–is pretty uniformly a minimum of 3-4 generations. The difference in this standard usually depends upon what constitutes the first generation. Some strategists count the groups they personally begin as generation 0 and they require three more generations beyond ground zero. Others count the groups they start as generation 1 and they require 4 (if this seems odd, just consider why some elevators count the first floor as level 0). Either way, you are talking about the same thing. But why 4? Because it gets far enough away from the catalysts that it becomes an excellent test of whether or not the spiritual DNA will not only survive, but thrive without outside control or resources. We all celebrate every generation! But we know there is something powerful in seeing your spiritual great grandchildren!

Transpiring quick enough–might be measured in 2-3 years, if it is measured. Realize this is not from the first entry of the first catalyst making contact with this people group. Once you start having second generation Discovery Groups is a reasonable time to start the clock running. If you do not have multiple generations with increasing numbers of new churches being planted, then something needs to change. What is it? It is possible something was started incorrectly and it keeps tripping people up. It is possible something has undermined the momentum that the early multiplication promised. Either way, what mid-course corrections need to be made?

These somewhat arbitrary benchmarks were created so that Disciple Making teams could evaluate the fruit they were seeing. The benchmarks you set for your efforts can become excellent parameters for determining what, if any, changes need to be made to see the greatest fruitfulness possible.

Why You Need a Coach

A few years ago my job title at Final Command Ministries was changed. It actually happened while I was out of the country and I had no input on the shift. To be perfectly transparent I was a little miffed.

Regretfully my upbringing did not prepare me well for that kind of situation. I earned my strokes as a people pleaser for decades. This was surely a contributor to me staying in school for so many years. Read the assigned material, participate in group discussions, study hard for tests and then write papers–the path to academic success and educational strokes.

But most formal education does not really reward disagreeing. Yes, I know it should, but it rarely does.

My former job title was Director of Training and Strategic Access. It was long and I helped craft it. The first half fit a lot of what Western Christians get–the need for training. But the second half was a bit mysterious and if someone asked me about it, their curiosity gave me permission to peel back the onion layers at least a little.

But who needs a coach?

Sure, we all want our children to have the benefit of a good coach when they participate in sports. Ideally, she/he will have played the sport in high school or college and have a good ability to model and drill the team toward greater cohesion and improved abilities.

I had coached basketball and baseball for my son, since I had lettered in both at my small high school. Later I coached my daughter’s soccer team even though I really had no personal experience to draw on (thankfully a good coach of my son’s soccer team suggested the strategy is much like basketball).

Yes, we all want our kids to have good coaches. But what adult wants to admit they need a coach?

Global Coach, that’s my job title. It was picked because that is really what I try to do, regardless of where I am. Even when I hold training events I am really sifting through the group looking for the few who sense they will need a coach.

It takes a special measure and variety of humility to acknowledge the need for a coach. There is a vulnerability needed that most adults prefer to avoid by acting out our best two-year-old selves–“I do it myself!” Then there is the challenge of knowing whether or not a particular candidate is the right coach for me. Maybe I sense I need one, but I will feel foolish if I pay him lots of money, invest time and energy and still don’t succeed.

Global Coach sounds grander. But who is going to believe that? If I get these disciple making principles so well, then where is the proof? Where are the people who’ve taken my coaching and their fruit is evident? Those are the unspoken questions I always anticipate.

But how do you answer those questions with integrity and not “blow your own horn?” How do you tell the ways God has used you without taking credit for works he accomplished?

Why do you need a coach? That’s a great question. You don’t need one to start lots of first generation Discovery Groups–a half-decent trainer can get you started doing that in about two hours if you will recruit a group with whom to experience it.

But you will need a coach if your goal is generations of groups starting groups where some of them become churches planting churches.

# 200!

A recent comment notes that I have not addressed how to catalyze Urban Disciple Making Movements. In my reply, I noted that this is true and noted that there are no known urban DMMs, yet.

There are rapidly replicating movements that are happening near major urban centers, but most of these are still happening among people with more of a rural mindset/worldview. Social scientists have long noted that urbanization radically impacts the way people see life, themselves and their relationships with others.

Some believe that the strong multi-generational family structure is radically altered by urbanization. It is intriguing to watch the response to some of these challenges that has arisen in China. The efforts to ride the wave of opportunity have separated many of their young professionals from parents and grandparents who still reside in the rural regions. With wealth, responsibility and distractions, many of these young professionals are choosing to break the cultural expectations by refusing to go “home” during their breaks. Laws have been passed which allow their parents to prosecute such lapses.

Planting the seed of the gospel into such families will not follow the same route as the rural settings of many of the movements in Africa. Some doubt it can happen at all.

Any honest strategist will tell you that we have much to learn about launching movements in megalopolises. Reaching the adult grandchildren whose parents and grandparents lived their whole lives in New York City will look very different than those in Buck Snort, Tennessee.

It will still take meaningful contact where God’s nature is overtly discussed. It will continue to require a Discovery process whereby worldview is shifted into a kingdom of God outlook. Discipling people to trust Jesus will continue to be a process. The tactics will shift, though.